Aaron Garner 0:00
we frame things this way. We're not asking what's wrong with people. We're asking what's different about people. And I thought, that's just really important to have that perspective. So quick introduction to Dan Hellz. He was a presenter at the Indiana MGMA conference that I went to. And in fact, he was a speaker a number of times in for that particular event. So I was kind of keeping track of what he was, what he was doing. And the topics that he was presenting on one area, in particular, the that he is an expert in is the application of strengths. And we always try to frame the world in a more positive way. And believe that strengths are very important for getting us to our goals, getting us to the outcomes that we we desire, and they fit into story structure to in some some interesting ways. And they lead to a more a better way to form to look at the world in a way that is more inclusive. So that's why Dan's here with us today. We're so appreciative to have him and welcome, Dan.
Dan Hiltz 1:10
Thank you, Aaron, I appreciate being here. I enjoyed meeting you and French Lick. And we had a conversation last week that I also enjoy. So I'm looking forward to even more,
Aaron Garner 1:21
just immediately dive into the worldviews. And this is something that is it's mentioned, it's mentioned within the the literature with Strengths Finder, but it's not us quite like we use it. What is your experience with how having a particular strength influences the way that you engage with the world or the way that you approach a particular problem?
Dan Hiltz 1:51
Good question. You know, Gallup has done a lot of research about the impact of strengths. And as you and your audience probably know, gallops identified 34 different things that they call talent themes that consists of multiple individual talents that people can apply. And their research has further identified the fact that these themes can be placed into one of four domains that are related to each other in the way people think, feel and act. And those four domains are execution, influencing relationship building and strategic thinking. So obviously, a person who is whose themes fall more into the area of executing are people that like to get things done, they'd like to be active, they like to be doing things. People who are high in influencing are more focused on Team processes and selling their ideas and actions to other people. People who are highest in relationship building are more focused on the content and quality of the relationships that they have with others. And people who are high in strategic thinking are more centered in the world of ideas and planning, before my top five, are in the area of strategic thinking, so I can see how that influences the way I approach problems and issues in the world. You know, it's really about the strategies that we can use to overcome those the alternative plans that we can put in place, the fallback positions that we might need to adopt other people with a different talent profile are going to take a completely different approach to that thing and their reaction, their approach to problems is going to look completely different from mine. Mine feels very comfortable to me, however. And so going back to that whole concept of diversity, again, when I see people doing things differently, I have to remind myself, what they don't have my toolkit of things, and I don't have their toolkit, so I can't say that what they're doing is right or wrong, as long as we both can get to the outcomes that we need to deliver. Does that
Mark Wilhelm 4:17
help? Dan? So when you're doing like workshops with people, I was wondering if giving people this framework has ever kind of helped them see that like, oh, yeah, there's multiple ways to do things that all worked, but maybe they just look different for different people.
Dan Hiltz 4:33
Yeah. The example that comes to mind immediately is not really related as much to outcome or productivity, but I was doing a session for school principals, and the school principals all had their top five and the superintendent who had hired me to come in and do this workshop had his top five and everybody in the room shared their profiles with each other and at the end of the day, one of the principals who happened to be a Catholic Renae came up to me and said this was so helpful, not just to learn about myself, but to learn about the superintendent, because his top five, were almost all centered in the area of strategic thinking. Her top five were all in the area of relationship building. And she said, you know, until today, I could never figure out why I found it so hard to talk to Chris, because he always seemed so cold and disinterested. But now I know that the problem is I have much higher expectations about a person's interest in relationships that he has. So when, when we talk to each other, we're focused on different things. And that doesn't mean that I'm right or that he's right. But we're just different. And knowing that now I'll feel much more comfortable at initiating conversations with Chris being comfortable with the kinds of responses that I get from him.
Aaron Garner 5:57
Me myself, I'm pretty high in the influence category. So we're a marketing company, I might come to view that as like really important, Why might it be a mistake? If I were to hire only people that were high in influence as to where or maybe it'd be better if I brought on somebody high and strategy like Mark or someone high end? Connection relationships like Maria, what is what's the right approach? Is there a right approach?
Dan Hiltz 6:23
Well, I think that when I talk to this talk about this subject in workshops, you know, I kind of go through a little exercise where I put up two hypothetical candidates to the people in the workshop, and I say, you know, you can either select Candidate A or Candidate B, they both have roughly the same experience the same educational background, they both interviewed pretty well. The one thing we know about him is the strengths profiles that these two candidates have. So looking at these two profiles, which candidate would you select candidate one or candidate two, I asked him to vote. And everybody always selects candidate one. I mean, every single workshop, the majority of people select candidate one. And so I asked some of the people who voted for candidate one, why did you make that choice, and they can give me very reasonable, well thought out answers about why this person's talent profile would be better for this organization that they're coming into. And so I tell people, you know, everybody always votes for candidate one. But every workshop, the profiles of candidate one and candidate two are different from each other. And I asked him if they can figure out how I choose what, which of the 34 strengths go into the profiles for the two candidates. And usually, after a couple of guesses, people are able to figure out that candidate one always has the five talents that are most represented already in the group. And candidate two has the talents that are least representative in the group. What I take from that is that people like to be around and hire people who are like themselves, because it's a lot easier to communicate with somebody who approaches problems, the same way that you do makes decisions the same way that you do, who kind of analyzes circumstances the same way that you do? And typically, what does happen is that over time, the talent profiles of organizations tend to become more similar with each other because then the hiring manager is hiring people like herself. And then I ask people, so thinking again, who's going to bring something to the team that we don't already have somebody who's just like you, or somebody who's a lot different from you? And obviously, the answer is, the best person to bring in to add new strengths skills is somebody who's different from us, right? You know, if you were creating a baseball team, you wouldn't want to have nine power hitters on in the lineup, right? You. You need a mixture of talents in there so that you're good at all aspects of the game. But we tend to build organizations that are very monolithic.
Mark Wilhelm 9:24
That makes me wonder, what are some of the ways that we can avoid building those monolithic organizations? That's a good it's part of just awareness, basically.
Dan Hiltz 9:37
Well, it definitely is awareness. You know, Gallup does not recommend using Clifton Strengths as a hiring or selection tool. You know, what they emphasize is hire people and be clear about the expectations and deliverables you expect from those people but then help them figure out how to apply their strengths to delivering those things. Brady, so the best way to make sure that you're getting, building a Strengths diverse team is to build an interviewing and selection process that gets input from a lot of people, you know, if the if the CEO is the only person that interviews, new hires, those new hires are going to look a lot more like the CEO. If the interviewing process includes people who are obviously different in terms of their talent profiles, you're going to be able to consider people with a much more diverse talent set that might be coming into the organization. Yeah, it's similar to, you know, making a decision or problem solving an organization. I can't remember who said it. But you know, if everybody's thinking the same thing, somebody is not thinking, you know, you need to have a devil's advocate, you need to have a tiger team to push back against groupthink and consensus. And I think the same thing is true in hiring, the more diversity you can get in the people who make the selection, the more diverse the talent pool will be of the incoming staff.
Aaron Garner 11:18
This reminds me that the other work that you do on resiliency, it, it's painful, when my team pushes back on me and says that I'm wrong. Or maybe I'm looking at this in a different way. Would you know, if if do we have to accept that there's going to be some discomfort? And is it? Is it helpful to lean into that discomfort a bit, in order to get better outcomes for your organization, even at the cost of being told that you're wrong having to work there communication challenges and all of that?
Dan Hiltz 11:53
Well, you know, think back to the Challenger disaster back in 1986. You know, there have been books written about that. And the fact that the, the management team that was making the go, no go decision. thought the same way, they were only presented with a limited subset of available data and making that decision. And because the the emphasis was on reaching a launch decision, because there were a lot of other external expectations that this rocket would go up on schedule on that cold morning, lead to that disaster, you know, it really only would have taken one person to say, No, I'm going to put my stake in the ground here. You know, it's just too high a risk to push that button. So we're not going to do that. Would that be uncomfortable for people in the room? Yes. 24 hours later? Are they all wishing somebody had said we're not going to do this? Absolutely. So just comfort is, is part of the process, right? I mean, we we grow through stress, whether it's muscular stress, or intellectual stress, you know, we have to do that in The Five Dysfunctions of the team, that Lencioni talks about the fact that one of the one of those five dysfunctions is the avoidance of conflict. You know, and if, if you're not willing to take a conflict, you're not getting the benefits from teamwork.
Mark Wilhelm 13:25
Reminds me of I think it was after the the Bay of Pigs invasion, they tried to figure out what went wrong and determined that it was just a horrible plan. And I think they attributed a lot of the planning issues to groupthink. So after that, they established a principle in like, the, the command room or whatever, that there was always one person that was going, whatever the plan was, there was always one person that was going to say, what if that's not the right plan?
Dan Hiltz 13:54
But the problem mark, you know, you're assigned to be the guy that is that devil's advocate, you know, and Aaron and Maria both said, Boy, this is a great approach, we got to do this. And Mark, all of a sudden, you have to be the fly in the ointment and say, Hey, no, we can't do this. You know, the, it's not just the strategy. It's not the tactics, but it becomes personal, then that outcome Martin doesn't get along. So I think what works better in organizations is not for a person to adopt that role all the time. But that that be an assigned task and responsibility in project plans, you know, Maria, today, you have to be the speed bump in the road that we're going to have to slow down for because you're going to bring up every possible obstacle that we have not thought about.
Maria Esterline 14:46
As we're talking and I'm keep going back to us knowing our strength and how that influence our views. But I'm curious to know if how do we keep that moving forward that growth mindset Have honing in on our strengths? Once we identify and how it shapes our view, what are some practical strategies to kind of hone in on our strengths?
Dan Hiltz 15:12
That's a great question. You know, they tend to be invisible to us until we really recognize what those are. But we tend to feel good about using them. So I think the best way to continue to grow those strengths is to keep them visibly in front of you. And to take actions that reinforce that thought all the time. So one of the things I recommend to my clients is that, for instance, a person puts his or her top five on their email signature, they maybe they post on the name tag outside their cubicle, whatever it might be, to let people be aware of what other people's strengths are, because being conscious about how people are different from you, in terms of strengths helps you be aware of what your strengths are, and how you're different from that person as well. Another thing I do in all my workshops is use some content that I've developed on my own, that help people take actions that continually reinforce their strengths. So one of the Gallup 34 themes is belief. And people who are high in belief, have a very strong value system. And they're really driven by the purpose of what they see as the purpose of their life. So for people like that, I recommend that they create a personal mission statement that they posted in their office so that they see it every day, to remind themselves of, you know, I know, this is what drives me. So let me keep thinking about that. You know, there's a tendency in organizations to follow organizational norms, and processes. But as individuals, we need to be reminded of what makes us unique, which is, which are the strengths that drive our best performance. And the more we can think about those, the more able we are to develop them to exercise that strength muscle, Gallup has a lot of additional information available on their website, in books that can help people pursue their strengths further. In my workshops, I only use people's top five. But when you take Clifton Strengths, the engine that drives that application actually calculates all 34 of your strengths in order and by paying a little bit more money to Gallup, you could unlock that full report and get that data. So there are a lot of ways that individuals can continue to read and learn about their strengths on their own. And of course, there are plenty of people like me who will are glad to come in and deliver workshops and organizations for money to help people develop their strengths further, but that's clearly not a requirement for an individual to continue to grow his or her talents.
Mark Wilhelm 18:18
And that makes me think about priming, which I have a feeling your breath.
Aaron Garner 18:22
For a while I had thought about assets in different ways. So you know, you have like, you have monetary assets that can appreciate over time, I thought it sure is unfortunate that some of our other valuable assets, they don't seem to appreciate as well, like if I, I study something and I add human capital, I don't remember it as well, next year, as I, you know, we can't just add to it and that multiply in that sense. And then one day I had this epiphany that when you put good people around you sometimes it does start to appreciate. So that's kind of what that reminds me of, if I have that in my email signature line, maybe I don't pay attention to my email signature line, but maybe mark and maybe Maria does. And maybe when we're going into a situation that requires one of my strengths, if they were to remind me of that, it would it would self perpetuate. So like a social amplification. So I really like that idea of having your team help you keep it top of mind as well.
Dan Hiltz 19:26
I don't know if you do this in your organization, or if some of your clients do but you know a lot of organizations that are intentional about culture, actually devote time in team meetings to talk about some aspect of the culture every time they get together. It might be a value or what I preferred. The term I prefer to use now instead of value is virtue, which I think of as a behavior based on a value. They might talk about the mission they might talk about the vision that they have as an organization, but they take the time to be intentional. about reinforcing that every day, because if they don't, you know, like everybody, we tend to fall into patterns and habits, that don't tend to be the most high productivity patterns and habits, right, we tend to go with the
Aaron Garner 20:18
you know that the priming aspect of it was really part of the reason for the podcast part of the reason for us doing this one for ourselves, you know, to keep these ideas top of mind. And occasionally we will talk about new and novel ideas. But it's I also think that it's important just to keep yourself primed our last conversation, you had made a few comments about how you would be more successful going into a particular challenge, if you reminded yourself of your strengths before you go into that challenge. So I guess what I'm trying to say, as I'm trying to tie that together with what the purpose of the podcast is, it's not necessarily that I'm going to teach you something new about marketing. But I'm keeping you a sharp marketer, I'm keeping we're keeping ourselves sharp marketers by having conversations with interesting and insightful people such as yourself.
Dan Hiltz 21:14
Well, I don't know if we talked about this in our last conversation, but I mentioned that I did a workshop for a group in Oregon last week. And putting that workshop together, I came across a quote from Tony Robbins, the motivational speaker. And his quote was the difference between something like this the difference between successful people and unsuccessful people, is that successful people ask themselves better questions. And he gave this example, an unsuccessful person will say, what's wrong with me that I can't lose this 15 extra pounds that I picked up over the pandemic? And so they start thinking about their failures, their weaknesses, their problems, their excuses, the successful person will say, How can I use my abilities to lose 15 pounds? And to be able to run a five kg in under 30 minutes? Yes, that question, you start thinking about the way you can organize your day, you can start thinking about activities that you find enjoyable, you can you'll think about who can I unlist as a training partner. So by taking that by reframing that, and I'm not familiar with the term priming, but by priming yourself to think that way, you start turning your questions into plans instead of turning your questions into excuses. And I think that that's where strengths can be so valuable, because if you understand what your strengths are, for instance, in my case, I could say how can I use my strategic thinking ability to develop a plan to find more prospects and to contact those prospects?
Mark Wilhelm 23:06
Aaron made a interesting connection that other people might see that, but it's also just yourself seeing it and maybe got some problem that has come up and you're like, how am I gonna approach this? And you go, Oh, wait, one of my biggest strengths is, I don't know. For me, it's learner.
Dan Hiltz 23:22
Well, for instance, you're not. In that case, when you're faced with a challenge. Mark, you're you're more willing to dig into that challenge, because it's a chance for you to gain select an organized knowledge, right, that process excites you and and energizes you. So the fact that you might get an assignment to do something that you don't know anything about, is not going to drive you into a dark corners, I'll never be able to get this done. You know, you you can say, hey, I, I know I love learning about new things. Here's a brand new field of knowledge. You know, for instance, maybe it's blockchain or something. You know, I don't know what blockchain is. But I'm not afraid to learn about blockchain, you know, I'm not going to say, Oh, I'll never get this done. You know, I had a conversation of a member of the faculty of the new Ph. D program and global leadership, and this program includes some mentorship for the students is not the same as academic advising. It's really just to help them maintain the personal side of their progress through this program, you know, because every PhD candidate gets discouraged at time, and they're worried about things and two of the people I talked to are worried about the data analysis that they're going to have to do in their dissertation and their dissertation research. And one of them is a public speaker. He's teaches communication at Indiana University. And he was worried about that, and I said, Well, You know, if you like to help people learn, and you like to give people presentations, one of the things that would make your students presentations better would be to put data in some kind of graphical format, right? And he said, Yeah, you know, because I, I teach people don't just read the words on a slide that you have behind. Yeah. I said, Well, fine. If if you want to teach people how to manipulate data, to turn it into something that's meaningful, on a graphic sense, you have to learn how to do that yourself by digging into Excel, or NetSuite, or whatever you're going to do. And I said, once you nothing helps you learn something like haven to teach it to somebody else, right? There's a Why don't you put together a module for your course about data analysis, and that having to teach that will energize you to do it. But in the process, you'll also be learning how to do it. And that whole fear that you have about how to analyze data and do statistics is just going to melt away? And, you know, he said, I won't take all the credit, but he said, you know, that is something I could do. That's something that I would like to do that something that I will do for the classes that I'm teaching this fall, and it'll be an addition to for my students, and it will be a value to me as well.
Mark Wilhelm 26:25
Yeah, so several, like sometimes even when we already kind of know, something like even if we already know something about ourselves, or if we know, if we have this skill set to do a task that we're going to do, we forget a lot because our memories not perfect. So that's kind of just goes back to the whole, just sort of putting ourselves in the right mindset, remembering what what our strengths are, can sometimes make a surprising difference. And in terms of like how successful we're going to be?
Dan Hiltz 26:58
Oh, absolutely. You know, a couple years ago, Dr. Atul Gawande wrote a book called The Checklist Manifesto, where he talked about the impact that checklists like the airline's use can be so helpful in operating rooms, and avoiding medical and surgical errors. And it's because we all tend to forget the things that we're supposed to be experts at and know, over time. So being conscious about what you do, and remind yourself of what those talents are, is going to keep them much fresher in your own mind. But it's also going to help you find ways to apply them more effectively.
Aaron Garner 27:43
Don't know what you call this kind of thing, I call it self persuasion. But you're you're taking a task that maybe you may or may not be interested in? And you're thinking about, how, how can I look at that task through this lens to get myself to do the thing that I want to do? So it's like, it's, it's a very interesting form of self persuasion? How often, and you know, I've thought about this after our first conversation, I thought about it in terms of, you know, there are certain things I know that I should be doing more in my life, and I rank really high in competition. So I think, well, would it become more interesting, if I, you know, viewed it through the lens of a competition? Or how could I become one of the best of, you know, in this category? And it's surprisingly helpful to reframe things in that kind of way? Do you? Do you think of it as self persuasion? And And how often do you do that to yourself?
Dan Hiltz 28:44
I guess I, I've never used the term self persuasion, I try to do it as often as possible. You know, the things that I like doing, you're creating strategic plans and outlines and project plans and, and things like that. So I try to do that for myself, in both my personal and professional life as well, because I know that will help me be more effective. I'm not the best at executing, but I'm better at following a plan that I've laid out for myself. I really like the way you describe that, Aaron, because strength is really not. Well, first of all, it is positive, but it's not Pollyanna, you know, we, we don't excuse poor performance because a person strengths profile doesn't align with their performance expectations. But the strengths movement should do as exactly what you described, is to be very clear about performance expectations and deliverables, and then helping people figure out how to apply their specific individual talents to accomplish that. And the best example I have around that actually is But the competition's strengthened, I can't recall if we've spoken about this before or not. But one of my executive coaching clients needed to get better at networking because she had to build a professional network, she runs a nursing home. And she needs to be able to network with hospitals and healthcare providers to get patient referrals, she needs to be able to network with potential donors to maintain the financial health of the organization, she needs a network with her peers in the organization so that she can occasionally get talented employees from them and get ideas from them. So you know what the strengths movement says, if your talents don't align with what you're supposed to deliver, you have really three options, you can just don't do what you're supposed to do, which is never really an option, right? You can find somebody to partner with who has a talent that's more aligned with that specific deliverable. Or you can figure out how one of your one of your talents can be applied to that deliverable. And so her approach was to use the teamwork approach. And she said, we're going to build a institutional network database every Friday, when we find out the names of people we've talked to, we're going to turn in this little template, then that's going to go in our Excel spreadsheet. So we next time we need to contact somebody at that hospital, for instance, will go to the database, find out who somebody knows, and they can get that done. Now this my clients, top talent happened to be competition. On the first week that they were turning in these contact forms. She went first and she had to contact forms to turn in. She turned to her assist administrator and said, Well, Joe, it's time for you to turn yours in now. And he said, Okay, well, I have five that I'm going to turn in. When she heard that he beat her by turning in five to her two that completely changed her approach to this networking, it was no longer an obligation to get to know somebody, now it was an opportunity to fill out a contact form that she could turn in the next week. And she said, I haven't been beaten since then, because I think of everything as an opportunity to fill out one of these forms that I can turn into be number one had next Friday staff meeting. So she took the although she thought she was using a teamwork approach, what she actually was doing was figuring out how to apply her talents to a deliverable where there didn't seem to be a natural alignment.
Aaron Garner 32:42
That's very, that's very interesting. And I used to, we still work in the mental health field, but I used to do direct patient care. And one of the things that I would do is we had paper charts, where you know, it wasn't electronic. So you actually had to file things. And you get to the end of the night, you have all these things to file. So one thing that I would do is make it a competition, like we'd split the papers, and we'd race to try to file them and get them put away. And one time we did a whole bunch of us flying through it. And I got them done. And I was laughing about how I just won, right, because I'm behind competition. And my buddy that I was racing again said, Did you and because I did all the work, you know, because I was ready to get it done. And I thought it was funny that I felt that I had won. And so had he because we had different frames of reference.
Dan Hiltz 33:32
Right, right. Well, you think about people who will say they're busy and overworked and burned out because of things that they have to do from eight to five, and then they'll go home and build a boat in their basement or something that worked till two in the morning, every night for six years. And you know, that's fine, you know, they, they only go to bed when they do because they need at least three hours of sleep before they get back up for their eight to five job. So it's really not a matter of time. It's about the energy that you can bring to your life into your work. And if you're operating in the strength zone, you're going to have more energy.
Mark Wilhelm 34:11
Yeah, people are having a negative negative connotations about work because they haven't figured out or I mean, sometimes just aren't able to find a good match. But the problem is often that like, you know where your interests lie, if your work that you're doing isn't fulfilling, sort of like the natural things. It's not it's not that people don't want to work is that we want to work about thing work on things that excite us and interest us and motivate us so it's just really interesting.
Aaron Garner 34:41
Yeah, yeah, it's like it gives a structure for optimism, you know, cuz I could try to be optimistic and say, Oh, well, tomorrow will be better and you know, tomorrow still still a grind. But if I applied that optimism within the framework of strengths, I'm much more likely to be productive and much more likely to come out of it. With with something that's more usable than just hoping that tomorrow is going to be a different day than today, because I'm actually doing something and reframing in a meaningful way.
Dan Hiltz 35:11
Well, Gallup has data that they do. They do a state of the workplace analysis every year, they also have done a meta analysis of hundreds of studies of employee engagement. And they know that organizations that help employees and Associates focus on strengths, have higher sales, they're more profitable, they have higher retention and higher employee engagement and fewer accidents on the job. So all of those things are associated with the team's ability to focus on what its members do best and give them the opportunity to do that as much as possible.
Aaron Garner 35:52
We are about at that transition point. I'm actually looking really I'm looking forward to hearing your responses on the rapid fire questions, because we already gone into some of those areas.
Maria Esterline 36:04
I'm just going to share a few words and I want to hear whether there's a word or phrase that comes to mind when I say these words, okay.
Dan Hiltz 36:13
Okay, I can't be locked up after this candle guys and white jackets after
Maria Esterline 36:21
the first word is curious.
Dan Hiltz 36:24
I have input is one of my top five I'm kind of a collector of stories and jokes. You know, I was great at a trivia. So I'm curious about a lot of things. I think it's based on my input talent, that my talent profile identified.
Maria Esterline 36:43
I love it creative.
Dan Hiltz 36:46
I'm not an artist or a musician or anything, but ideation is one of my top five. So I like to come up with new ideas and try to find new ways to put things together sometimes I think that creativity keeps me from going ahead and getting other stuff done. Because I have another new idea that I got to think a little bit about, you know,
Maria Esterline 37:08
what? resourceful,
Dan Hiltz 37:11
again, that aligns with one of my doubt gallop talents of adaptability, you know, I'm not flustered by changes in plans or processes. You know, I'm, I've gone to Europe before gotten off the plane with $1.54 in my pocket. You know, I figured out I can get by with over there. You know, that's great.
Maria Esterline 37:33
Brave.
Dan Hiltz 37:36
Boy, I wish I can't claim anything about being brave. You know, I have three sons, two of them are still on active duty in the military that the third is a veteran. My father, my father in law, we're all both served in World War Two. So yeah, I would. I'm probably the least brave person that I know. Because I've seen people put themselves in harm's way for the good of others. And I've never done that.
Maria Esterline 38:06
Beautiful.
Dan Hiltz 38:07
Well, I was just in Seattle, and I met my new granddaughter who's two weeks old. So right now that's she's about the most beautiful new thing in my wife and she has an older sister and she has a cousin, my grandson in Dallas. So right, there's a lot of beauty in my world these days.
Mark Wilhelm 38:28
So love that. Well, Dan, I can see why we we seem to all kind of think somewhat in common because fun fact curious, creative, resourceful, and brave are like our four like company values. And you said curious, creative and resourceful, all mapped to strengths that you have. So it's making sense why we seem to be able to think in some similar way
Dan Hiltz 38:51
so you can see the impact of that natural talent, you know, coming out and all of us I'm sure it's not an accident that you as a team have selected those as your core values.
Maria Esterline 39:06
And then how do people get ahold of you? Oh, Dan.
Dan Hiltz 39:11
Well, I have a my own website. It's leadership squared.com You can email me dan at leadership squared calm and I mentioned that Aaron brought up the fact that and Mark talked about this to the fact that work isn't work if you like what you're doing and talking about leadership and personal growth and development doesn't feel like work to me. So anytime any of your listeners or you guys would like to talk to me more about this stuff, you know where to find me. I love dealing with it.
